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TL;DR: Of all the PAGG components, I highly recommend and still take Alpha-lipoic acid every day.
Back in December I tore thru The Four-Hour Body while on vacation visiting my family. There were a few big takeaways for me, but the one that I was most excited about was the PAGG stack. As I wrote in my original review, the components of the PAGG stack, which you can all of at whole foods, gnc, etc, are Policosanol, Alpha-lipoic acid, Green tea extract, Garlic extract. Tim calls these supplements the “four horseman of fat burning,” so I set out to try them and see whether or not they were worth the time and money.
Policosanol, which I continually mispronounce, is derived from sugar cane. The main benefits of Policosanol are “cardiovascular health” if you are to believe the label. But Tim thinks it’s worth including in the stack because of an unintended benefit he discovered while taking it to improve his cholesterol. He found that taking it before bed, increased his fat loss.
Alpha-lipoic acid is an antioxidant that makes your pee smell like you ate asparagus. I’m not kidding, one of the first things I noticed when I started taking the PAGG stack was that my pee smelled. Over time I narrowed it down to the ALA. Tim’s reasoning for inclusion in the stack can be summed up in one sentence: “ALA helps you store the carbohydrates you eat in muscle or in your liver as opposed to in fat.”
Green tea extract, or EGCG, is yet another antioxidant. People have been trying to market the crap out of green tea this past decade and its ability to increase metabolism. There have even been some “negative calorie” drinks to hit the market that claimed that since there zero calories in the drinks, and they increased metabolism, the net effect is negative calories. None of these drinks were major successes. Tim is a believer in EGCG because, similarly to ALA, it increases GLUT-4 recruitment to your muscles.
The last ingredient in the stack is garlic extract. The book includes an interesting story of how Tim came to investigate the benefits of garlic involving a homeless man. Garlic extract also benefits the heart according to their labels. Tim says he’s achieved the highest fat-loss when taking high doses of allicin, a component of garlic.
Ok, so now that you know all about it, how do you take it? Simple, basically you take everything four times a day, with a little bit of a twist. You only take P(olicosanol) before bed, and when you take it, you don’t take the G(reen tea extract). So it looks something like:
Before breakfast: AGG (No P)
Before lunch: AGG (Still no P)
Before dinner: AGG (Same as previous two times)
Before bed: PAG (This time we take P, and remove Green Tea)
RESULTS: So how did it work? At first I thought it was working pretty well, but over time I have grown increasingly skeptical of it’s benefits. Let me explain my reasoning. When I began taking the stack in early January, I was also on a new diet of strict paleo. Over the 45 days of paleo, I lost weight and bodyfat and consistently took PAGG almost every day as instructed. Which is to say 6 days per week, and 1 week off every 2 months. Over the last 45 days, I have continued to take PAGG, but have relaxed my paleo ways.*** I have continued to exercise at the same level during this entire period of time, 5-6 days per week of Crossfit Football strength programming, and the WOD from Crossfit Santa Clara. I haven’t been back to Fitness Wave for a follow up body fat measurement, but I can tell by the mirror that I have not continued to reduce body fat.
SIDE EFFECTS: Basically none. Like I said before, it did make my pee smell like I had just eaten a ton of asparagus. If you don’t know what that smells like, well eat some asparagus! There is a warning section in the book which says not to take it if pregnant or breastfeeding, and a few other things, so like anything, consult your doctor before taking a bunch of pills multiple times a day.
RECOMMENDATION: If I had jumped right in and wrote this review in February, I probably would have really encouraged people to try this. Now I’m not so sure. So here is the deal. Given that there are basically no side effects, if you want to try something new for supplements, the only thing you have to risk is the money. All of the components, Policosanol, Alpha-lipoic acid, Green tea extract, Garlic extract are available online, as well as local stores like Whole Foods, GNC, Vitamin Shoppe, etc etc. Compared to other supplements on the market, the PAGG stack isn’t that expensive. I will warn you that since December and the release of The Four-Hour Body, PAGG companies have been popping up left and right selling high priced pre-bundled PAGG stacks. You don’t need to spend top dollar on these 4 supplements , they are all readily available and a few of them were likely on clearance shelves at drug stores until recently. All of that said, some expense is still more than no expense, so if money is tight, pay your bills before buying supplements.
*** I plan on starting strict paleo again on April 1.
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{ 23 comments… read them below or add one }
Hey Mike – I was interested to see your take on paggsupplement.com given that it isn’t that expensive compared to the individual ingredients. Do you feel the convenience and the additional engineering that went into the dissolution research and biotin is worth the extra money?
Probably not. The stack in general doesn’t seem to be worth the money, adding additional cost for biotin seems silly.
At this point I think every PAGG specific supplement company is just a get rich quick scam trying to take advantage of the popularity of the book. Case in point, that domain was registered on December 21, 2010. How much additional engineering went into a product that was thought of and created in a couple of weeks?
Interesting – thanks Mike! I had bought from paggsupplement after carrying around all the bottles to work and back so it’s been good for me but I see your point.
This is incorrect- “Before bed: PAG (This time we take P, and remove Green Tea)”
According to book – The 4 Hour Body, it does NOT remove Green Tea on the final dose; therefore the final dose is PAGG. Tim Ferriss does recommend taking decaffeinated Green Tea pills.
The book has a mistake in it. See the correction that Tim posted here:
http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2011/01/21/housecleaning-and-clarifications-blog-content-4hb-corrections-competition-winners-slow-carb-mistakes-and-more/
An overzealous typist cost me 15 night time Green Tea doses. LOL. Thanks.
Sorry if I’m confused here, so help me out. If I read correctly, you started seeing a decline in the PAGG results at the same time that you started getting relaxed on your paleo diet? Is the PAGG stack supposed to still produce results if your diet isn’t consistent? I’m doing the Slow Carb diet as recommended in the book and working out 6 days a week. I’m about 3-5% away from my body fat goal. Do you think PAGG would help or be a waste of money? (You mentioned that you started back on paleo in April…what are your results looking like now?)
Thanks for your time and help!
Shari
I spent about $80 on a month’s supply of the four supplements separately. If I was to do it over again I would definitely pony up another $10-$20 for AGG and PAG in a single pill and two bottles (partly because I cross the border a lot and they don’t like pills not in their original bottles).
I’ve been on it for almost three weeks, and the jury is still out on effectiveness. It certainly isn’t a six-pack in pill form. While I don’t have any reliable body-fat measuring devices, I do feel like I’ve lost some abdominal fat, and I haven’t been particularly strict about eating slow/low carb.
Looking at the ingredients it will ONLY work in combination with a good diet and exercise just like most supplements.
Heck if a person just ate tons of vegetables and lean meats with requisite water they would lose a good amount of weight unless they have a bad thyroid or other health issues. The Lipoic Acid even regulates glucose so that by itself with green tea would be great.
Since this post, have you started taking PAGG again while doing Crossfit? I want to shed some weight and I think Crossfit, Paleo, and PAGG should do it. What was your results like?
I would suggest paleo and crossfit if you want to lose weight. I wouldn’t suggest spending all the money on PAGG. After a year or so, I would only suggest taking the Alpha-lipoic acid
You are right. But Tim does say in his book that supplements are basically only good for the last 5%. The 95% is diet and exercise.
Agreed. If I had to only choose one of these, it would be the ALA. Second would be the green tea, but I’d prefer drinking it to taking a pill.
And Na-R-Ala is considerably better. Add in some Gymnema, Coleus, and Banaba and you are set.
There are better similar and cheaper options out there.
As people have said for what it contains it is overly expensive.
You can possibly get bulk powders of most of the most effective ingredients and some grapefruit juice to mix them with.
This will serve to extend their potency in the body.
The ALA is the best part with the green tea being a far second. High potency guggulsterones are good for thyroid output and making sure you get iodine.
I was going to try PAGG but someone else came out with something way better.
Mike, did you have any blood tests done to see if PAGG actually did anything for your blood chemistry? I’m interested in PAGG more for that benifit since it’s all natural when compared to statins that kill the liver to save the heart.
Thanks
Interesting question. I never had any bloodwork like that done. Are you looking to lower your cholesterol without statins?
Yes. I’ve high cholestrol (inherited from my parents), and have been on statins forever. I’ve been using the diet plan, per say, and have dropped 20 pounds and a lot of body fat (I actually have a 4 pack and am on my way to the 6). I’ve always been natural, except for the statins, and when I read the 4 Hour Body and the side effects of PAGG was lower cholestrol, I thought “makes sense”.
I had my annual last month, and my Doc is not a big believer in PAGG, but he said if I was interested, he would give me a standing order to have bllod work done. I’ve been doing PAGG for 3 weeks now, and I think it has helped a little as far as fat goes, but I haven’t had the blood work done. I wanted to see if you had and if it worked so I could either continue or stop wasting time and money. I guess I’ll be a lab rat and have blood analysis done monthly or so to see what it does. I’ll let you know how it works out.
I haven’t had blood work done recently, and I don’t know if I still have the paperwork results, but my cholesterol levels all improved during the time when I took the full PAGG stack. They are still exceptional, although I only take the ALA now. But also drink a lot of Green Tea
I have hypothyroid and am on on synthroid. I have to get regular blood panels and this time decided to opt for a full panel since I just read 4HB. My HDH is high and my LDL was low. My body fat percentage is high and I need to loose some Weight. I have started the PAGG stack the slow carb diet and I’m starting to work out a few times a week (I’m in week 1).
I’m planning on getting a second full blood panel done around week six. It would be interesting to see what my new numbers come back at vs. others.
KevT I’m happy to post my results and if your up for a comparison. I’m also interested in seeing where my B vitamin stats ( currently normal) are since I have read that the PAGG stack and increased water consumption can effect that.
I did get my pre and post blood work done. On statins, everything was normal. I got off the statins and on PAGG. After 6 weeks, I went back for blood work, and my LDL and triglycerides were both up significantly. I opted to go back on Tripilix to get those down since those are the ones that clog the pipes. Other than those two, everything else was spot on.
I’m going again in the next couple weeks to get blood work done again, so I’ll post up what, if anything, is going on.
I definitely appreciate the info. I’m not sure that the conclusion is entirely methodical because it is very difficult to isolate the stack itself as the cause of anything. Considering that it is supposed to cause carbohydrate energy to be used for building muscle mass, I can certainly imagine that a change in diet could render the stack ineffective. Any food or weight loss related study is always rendered basically invalid by the “ate whatever they wanted” or “ate their normal diet” group. So going off of Paleo and and continuing PAGG is likely to have backwards. Had you continued Paleo and stopped PAGG then the difference could be measured, but it is really hard to say that going back to eating whatever you want (even if it wasn’t terribly unhealthy) should have resulted in continued weight loss due to the stack. Not trying to be a naysayer, but it would be interesting to hear someone who did it the other way. I just ordered my stack today, so maybe I’ll be the test subject!
Hello everyone. I just want to tell you that I am really disappointed from Pareto Nutrition 4HB Stack. The product is fake. Don’t use it. And also it is really simple to understand that they lie to their clients. Their capsules only fit 735mg of nutrients but they list over 950mg in their supplement facts. Overall this is very fishy, maybe even illegal and I would not in any way recommend this product. The facts they provide do not match up with the manufacturing facts of the product and thus there is clear evidence that the owner of the product is in some way lying or is not an expert in the field.
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